Medical Education US

aondrako@hotmail.com

Hello. I am an undergrad student at the University of Florida. And I will be graduating this December with my B.S. in Psychology. I've recently discovered my passion for psychiatry. But now I must get into medical school. What required courses should I take to get in and to prepare for the MCAT? I am taking anatomy to help get some basics down, but I really haven't had the other neuroscience, chemistry classes because of my major. Should I do some post-baccalaureate studies until Im ready for the MCAT?

When I started medical school in 1992, most med schools required certain classes which were pretty much the classes you'd want to take to prepare for the MCAT. From what I recall, they were:

1 year biology
1 year chemistry
1 year organic chemistry
1 year physics

I would think with those, you'd be well enough prepared for the MCAT.

For more information, you can view a list of frequently asked questions about medical school requirements here

As it appears this thread is getting quite a few pages views for the few days it has been around, I figure there must be a lot of people out there looking into medical school admission requirements. So, for those looking for more information, I'm recommending the following books which you can find new and used at Amazon by following the links, and findng more reviews and recommendations there as well.

First, The Complete Medical School Preparation and Admissions Guide is very popular. The third edition was published in March 2000. From Amazon's book description:

Book Description
Quoted in Compton's Online Encyclopedia and used by thousands of students, counselors, and premedical advisors, the 3rd edition of Dr. Goliszek's popular book includes everything one needs to know about medical school preparation and successful admissions. Areas covered include medical and premedical curriculums, the MCAT, study and test-taking skills, medical school interview, minority admissions, extracurricular activities, financial aid, alternate health careers, high school preparation, medical school selectivity and national rankings, and much more.

The other popular book is:

Medical School Admission Requirements: United States and Canada, 2004-2005 which is published with the Association of American Medical Colleges. Amazon's description:

Fully-authorized annual guide to the entrance requirements of American and Canadian medical schools. Contains comprehensive admission information on every accredited medical school, along with information on the career options and financial planning options available for those who choose a medical school education. Features a companion web site. Softcover.

I'm more than happy to hear anyone elses suggestions!

I am in the same situation as you. I have no idea waht i need to do either.

Hello, I'm new here, and I have another question to add to this thread:

Is it possible to become a physician without taking calculus? Or does the year of physics requirement make it necessary?

From what I remember, most med schools require 1 year of math, but they don't specify calculus. There are some physics classes that you can take that don't require calculus. Some meds schools will say calculus is recommended, others may require 1 quarter or semester of calculus and a few even require 1 year of calculus.

The book mentioned above:

Medical School Admission Requirements: United States and Canada, 2004-2005

has the requirements for each school listed. Most colleges have a copy in their library that you can look through - which is what I did.

It is sometimes out of stock at Amazon, so I'd recommend seeing if they have copies of the 2002-2003 version available:

Medical School Admission Requirements, United States & Canada, 2002-2003

[ Edited by Admin on 2003/7/3 20:04 ]

Thanks for the reply. I'm definitely going to check the library for the book you mentioned.

Yes, you have to take calculus. There are specific psychics classes you have to take for premed. You also have to use a lot of the calculus, physics, organic chemistry, biology, cell biology, genetics, and gen chem concepts in medical school. If you are shying away from any of these classes or do not enjoy studying this material, you should be aware that these are the basics of practiceing medicine. Biochemistry and molecular biology (part of the study of medicine) is filled with calculus. Also, getting into medical school is very competitive. I think one in every 10 applicants is accepted. If you take the easier classes, you are reducing your changes of acceptance.

I'm not sure where the last poster went to medical school, but I think he/she is exagerating a few things. Personally, I don't recall using ANY calculus in medical school. I also don't recall much of organic chemistry or general chemistry for that matter.

As for current acceptance rates, this person was WAY off. Based on information from the Association of American Medical Colleges, about half of people who apply are accepted. A related page of their site (the last line is where I got my info):

http://www.aamc.org/students/considering/gettingin.htm

Overall, I wouldn't put much weight in anything the last poster claims.

hi im new .....im in high school and im wondering which courses i am required to take to get into university and medical school???

How far are you in high school? From what I recall, high school classes didn't play that big of a part. Here's the page at the AAMC for exploring careers in medical school:

http://www.aamc.org/students/considering/start.htm

I also found this site which has some interesting information about getting into colleges and med-school.

Any major is acceptable for medical school
You must take the following however

1 full year general inorganic chemistry with lab
1 full year of Organic chemistry with lab
1 full year of physics (trig or calculus based)
Biology 1 semester and zoology 1 sem
2 semesters of college English
1 semester of general psychology

Recommended courses:
Microbiology and biochemistry are highly recommended
1 quarter or 1 semester of calculus is required for some schools.

Remember 99% of those accepted have at least a bachelors degree They take VERY FEW people without.

When you say a "year" for example "a year of inorganic chem" does that mean u have to major in it for a year?

A "major" is what you concentrate your studies on during the course of college, not a single year or class. For example, I graduated with a major in chemistry, which means that I took all of the required classes by my college for that major. One of my friends graduated with a major in English - he took mostly english classes and few science classes. We both had to take some of the same core liberal arts classes.

For an updated list of Amazon's most popular books on this topic:

Medical School Requirements Books

[ Edited by Admin on 2005/1/30 8:41 ]

There are some requirements that I found on SIU's website and a pre-med website medicalhelpnet.com. Hope it helps.

I had a really hard time finding the information on SIU's website, so if you could pass along the address, it'd be appreciated. The only relevant information I found (although I didn't search for THAT long):

SIU Admissions Requirements and Selection Factors

As for the other site you mentioned - I couldn't find any information about who provides the information. Some of it seems a little odd (such as recommending going to a private school for high school if the public school isn't good enough). They have covering a lot of different topics, though, and much of the information seems pretty reasonable. I'm just curious where they got their information.

Hi im new here, does anyone know if it would be possible if you pass the MCAT and complete the course requirements but still dont have your BS to enter Med School?

I had looked into this when in college. There are some med schools that will accept you without graduating undergrad, but only a few. Also, if you are still in high school, there are the programs that are 6 or 7 year programs combining undergrad and medical school.

Also, the MCAT is not something you "pass". You get a score on it, like the SAT or ACT.

Hi, I am in college and considering medical school. Could you give me a description of what med school is about? Thank you

that's a pretty broad question. check out:

AAMC Site about medicine as a career

This page's second question goes over what your asking. Hope that helps.

I am a psych major with a minor in cognitive science at CMU, I have heard that I should take organic chem, bio, anatomy, and neuroscience to go to a med school for psych. I have also heard that I need to do a lot of research during undergrad years for a PhD and proper consideration for med school. Does anyone know anything about this?

From what I recall, you need a year of biology, a year of general chemistry, a year of organic chemistry, a year of physics, and a year of calculus for most medical schools. You do not need anatomy, nor neuroscience, unless the requirements have changed in the last 10 years, which I doubt. There are a few ways to look at the question of whether to take anatomy as an undergrad - it'll make anatomy easier when you are in medical school as it'll be familiar, but it also prevents you from taking a different class while you are in college that you won't have an opportunity to take in medical school. A neuroscience class could mean anything as far as I can tell - as a psychology major, a lot of the classes probably fit into the neuroscience category.

Your question about research is a little unclear - I have heard that medical schools like to see that you've done some research as an undergrad, although I don't know how much it really matters.

A PhD program is something completely separate from medical school. You probably would want to do some research to make sure it is something you really enjoy doing and understand what is involved before deciding to get a PhD. I would say it is not necessary to do a lot of research, but some research would definitely be a good idea for a PhD program. Actually, I don't know if research experience matters much for clinical psychology programs - I would guess it's more important for research PhD programs.

[ Edited by Admin on 2003/11/24 21:13 ]

i know that there are some general clases you have to take for med school (phys, english, math, chem, etc), but i've heard many people say that taking other classes help a lot too. mostly what i have heard is upper division biology classes and a semester of psychology. I can understand the upper division biology classes, but is taking a psychology class really that helpful in making your application look better?

see my reply in another thread:

Psychology classes and medical school requirements.

Hello,

I am currently a highschool junior right now and am planning a career as a surgeon. I have already been reading many books (Residency diaries, anatomy books, and modern history of medicine books; etc.) on the field of medicine so I have a good feel on what im getting myself into. I would like to ask for some clarification on the requirment of a bachelors degree. I know i should have one however ive noticed that the college i will be attending (University of California, Riverside) does not offer a BS in medicine, sorry if i sound incompetent here, but could i just work toward getting a BS in something that is offered that is medical related like biology and of course take all the prerequisites for entrance into a med school?

I also would like to hear your opinions on a certain path i am going to take as a HS senior. I plan on taking all my normal advanced classes in highschool by starting my day earlier, then taking EMT and Medical Assistant courses in the afternoon. I have talked to my counselor and i was told that they were a good way to get experience in the field as i ca benefit from the education and internships. I would like to know if you guys think this is a good idea. Also do you guys think that becoming a paramedic during college since ill already be an EMT by the time i enter, be advantageous when im trying to get into medical school?

PS: Could anyone recommend a good book on the life of a doctor during his medical school/early residency days?

Thanks guys!!

-Victor

Victor,

Thanks for posting your questions. First, I have never heard of a college degree in "medicine". Basically, you will get your bachelors degree (I have a B.A. - you don't need a B.S.) by completing all of the college requirements for that particular degree. Each college will have its own, but similar, requirements for each major. I was a chemistry major, so I got my B.A. in chemistry (it was a few more classes for a B.S., and I wound up wanting to graduate early - and I knew it wouldn't make much, if any, difference as for getting accepted to med school). Many people major in biology because by the time you have taken all of the pre-med classes, you may only need to take 2-3 more classes to be a biology major. Hopefully that clarifies your question about majors. There are different theories about what to major in - some people say you should major in typical medical related fields, like biology. Other people say you should major in a more esoteric field, like philsophy, so that you will add diversity to the med school you go to. I personally don't think it matters much - as long as you have the required pre-med classes, have the GPA and MCAT scores the med school wants, write decent essays, then you will probably get an interview regardless of your major. I would study whatever is most interesting to you. You'll get plenty of the science classes in med school.

To me, it sounds like doing the EMT stuff and Medical Assistant courses is overkill - but that might be pretty typical of people who go into surgery, who tend to be very intense, driven people - even more so than other doctors. I think I've only run into one person who was an EMT before med school, and that was his career after college before he went back to school to go to med school. It definitely will give you a flavor for what medicine is about though, mostly by hanging out in the ER's when you are dropping off patients there.

As for a good book - here's a few to check out (in no particular order):

The Intern Blues : The Timeless Classic About the Making of a Doctor

House of God

First, Do No Harm

Becoming a Doctor: A Journey of Initiation in Medical School

A Not Entirely Benign Procedure: Four Years As a Medical Student

Kill As Few Patients As Possible

[ Edited by Admin on 2005/1/30 8:46 ]

Thank you very much Admin for your feedback. At this time in my life any information I can get impacts me alot. I will surly check out the list of books you put up, they all look very interesting.

Your breakdown of the degree requirements for med school was a huge help. Thank you.

I had another question, if anyone knows anything about medical school programs that begin after high school and usually result in a early graduation (6-7 years?), could they please suggest a few so that I could look into them? I belive UC San Diego has one however it seems very limited as it only alows 12 applicants to be accepted. Are these programs all like this?

I did look at some of the 6-7 year combined programs, actually interviewing at an 8 year program at University of Miami combining an undergrad degree in engineering and then medical school. Most of the places that offer these programs only have a very limited number of slots available. I know a few people who have done these programs and they seem fairly happy with having done things the way they did.

My own sense, though, is that they are not a good idea for the student. Typically, if you are good enough to get accepted out of high school, you will be good enough to go to a top caliber college and get a great undergrad education. If you go to a top school and do well, you will get accepted into medical school - and probably one at least as good as the one offering the 6-7 year program.

The 6-7 year programs are a great idea for the colleges, as they are likely to attract students that typically would not go to that college.

Some other downsides for the student are that the undergrad experience is extremely condensed with mostly just pre-med stuff as you lose a lot of your elective opportunities. I'm guessing they may also expect you to go to summer school to do some of your classes, so you lose out on summer opportunities (and vacation). You also will lose out on the peer group you will likely be part of your freshman year when you start med school your 2nd or 3rd year. Finally, if you decide to leave the program, you may have to actually make up coursework to complete your undergrad degree, but I doubt this is likely to happen.

A few other upsides:

1. you finish at a younger age. While there are certainly many doctors who started med school at an older age, I think there are also advantages to starting early. If you are considering a surgery career, you are looking at a minimum of 5 years of residency after med school (ob-gyn can be done in 4 and includes a lot of surgery, but if you know now you'd want to do gyn surgery, you'd probably be more interested in doing a gyn-onc fellowship afterwards which I believe is another 2 years, possibly 3). If you want to do a speciality of general surgery, like cardiovascular surgery, you are looking at another 2-3 years of fellowship after that. At some point you may want to have a family, so starting earlier can work to your advantage.

2. You don't have to worry as much about making grades in college to get accepted into med school. As a pre-med student, college can be a lot of pressure. Pre-med classes are hard, and you have to get good enough grades to get accepted for med school. Most of the 6-7 year programs require you maintain a minimum GPA, but it may be only a 3.0 which typically is on the low end to get accepted for medical school.


One other idea, is to do what I did. I didn't plan on it until after my freshman year of college. I had enough AP credits from high school that I was able to graduate from college in 3 years with only taking a few extra classes. I don't remember how I did it, but I think I just took an extra class a few semesters, and it wasn't really that hard. In fact, college was the easiest time of my life - school wise. You have more free time than you will ever have, the social life is great, and the classes are interesting.

Hi,
I am in my last year in high school, and I am very interested in a career in medicine.

I'd just like to know if my high school courses play any part in my application to a medical school? Or will medical schools only look at your university courses as admission requirements?

Thanks
-- John

I am not aware of any medical schools looking at high school courses as part of their decision process.

Yeah im sure medical schools dont care for highschool. It wouldnt make sense why they would. However if you cant wait to get started in the field, or if you just want to make sure you know what your getting yourself into, how about trying out some programs? My highschool gives me credit if i take certain classes at my city's community college. Im currently going to take an Emergency Medical Technician course next semester, they teach you how to read electrocardiograms, assess patients and a ton of other stuff with trauma patients. Im sure that kind of stuff is what your dying to learn, i know i am.

Another class im going to take is a medical assistant course. My counselor said i can get some good experience from the internship thats part of the course. This can undoubtably help in making a decision if you truly want to pursue a career in medicine. Hope this helps.

As for finding the programs, maybe ask your counselor or check out your community college. I think certain agency offer them too.

-Victor Valdez

If you are in high school you do not need to worry about medical school now when you get to college take your pre-med classes and study so you get all As other than that don't worry now have fun and do well in high school. The only thing my friends did in high school to prep for med school is to volunteer at hospitals and for internships and the like that would prep you for the medical profession. Good luck.

wrote:
hi im new .....im in high school and im wondering which courses i am required to take to get into university and medical school???

I was wondering if I could email you privately because I have less general questions to ask you if you don't mind emailing me my email is scarletrain5@aol.com. I would really appreciate it.

What questions do you have? Email me at kktropics@aol.com.

At least a year? Or at most a year?

What if you passed the course (Physics for example) but it took you a bit more then a year? If that a problem?

I am a Caribbean student presently in my first year of an undergraduate program.I am presently doing biology, chemistry and physics. I would like to major in Biochemistry and minor in chemistry can I get in to medical school with this combination?

I moved the above anonymous message to into this message to keep one thread on medical school requirements. I should probably clean this up and make it into a FAQ to be referred to whenever someone has questions as there does seem to be a lot of info accumulated here.

Majoring in biochem and minoring in chemistry is fine - as is any other major, as long as you fulfill all the premed requisites. I was a chemistry major and philosophy minor. Many people are biology majors. Occasionally you'll find some english majors, art history majors, history majors, etc in medical school.

Choose what you find interesting for classes in college - you'll get all the medical stuff you need in med school. Obviously, if you've had the class as an undergrad (say anatomy or biochemistry), then the course is obviously going to be easier in med school - depending on where you go and what you want to do, though, grades in med school your first two years are not the most important things, and may not be at all important (I was lucky - University of Chicago was all pass / fail - no grades - for their med school).

I'm an MS1 at University of New England, and one of my classmates is in a 3+4 program in the medical school. This is a program that gets you through medical school in seven years after HS. She did 3 years undergrad, took the MCAT, and is now an MS1 (without her bachelor's degree). She is really young, but seems to be doing fine. It's up to the individual, but I am glad that I went a different route on the road to medical school... I went through undergrad (in German), got a masters degree (in Health Promotion), and then did some military service and worked before medical school.

Regardless, it is a great experience! Good luck with med school and all of your undertakings.

University of New England's website is:
www.une.edu

I?m 18 and I just left high school. I really want to pursue a career in medicine. I?ve learnt a lot from the messages posted here but there is one thing that isn?t completely clear. Several courses have been stated as a requirement for med school, 1 year organic chemistry etc. But when do you do these courses? Do you do them while getting your first degree or after? That would mean there?s a time period between completing your first degree and entering med school, right? And also, does doing premed as a major cover these prerequisite courses, or does it exempt you from other courses in med school?

In order to get accepted to medical school, you have to complete the required pre-med classes. Most people take then while they are obtaining their college degree - in whatever field they are studying. For example, you could be a philosophy major in college, and still take the required pre-med classes during your elective time - there is usually a lot of flexibility in any major regarding electives - so any major can still take the required pre-med classes. Therefore, there is no time between obtaining your college degree and starting medical school.

There are some people who finish college, and work for a few years, and then decide they want to go to medical school. They'd have to make sure they take all of the necessary pre-med classes if they didn't while they were in medical school.

Finally, there is no such major as "pre-med". "Pre-med" just means you are planning on applying to medical school, and therefore you are taking the courses necessary for medical school application. You still have to major in a field - such as biology, chemistry, psychology, philosophy, etc. As far as I am aware, any classes you take as an undergraduate will not exempt you from taking them in medical school. I believe there were some biology graduate students who took our medical school biochemistry class, so perhaps if they changed and went to medical school, they wouldn't have to take that particular class. However, I don't recall many classes that were open to students who were not in the medical school.

Thanks Admin, that really helped. Its begining to become more clear. However, another question, do you think students who major in the subject areas relevant to medicine (biology, chemistry etc) have an advantage over students who major in abstract subjects like dance or engineering?

One more question, what are the policies for external exam achievements? Lets say for example could a student submit passing grades for A level chem, bio, physics and math does that mean they dont have to do those prerequisite courses?

1. Major doesn't really matter from what I've heard. Many are science majors for a few reasons. First, if you take all the pre - med classes, you've probably met almost all of the requirements for a major in biology. Second, most doctors have an interest in science fields in the first place. However, some people say that having a non-science major will help you stand out a little bit amongst all of the science majors. I personally don't think it makes that much difference - except that being a non-science major may make for a more interesting interview as your major might become a topic of discussion. Some people will have a minor or double major, and that will also show some diversity in your interests.

2. Regarding "external exam achievements" - I'm not sure what you mean by that. When I was in high school, we had "AP" classes (Advanced Placement). At the end of the year, you can take a standardized national test, and those are scored on a scale of 1-5. Colleges would count certain scores towards college credit. Most medical schools would also count the AP credit towards meeting some of the pre-med requirements. However, some people retake the class in college anyway because the class may be more intense in college than it was in high school, and if some of it is review, it may make for a class to get a higher grade in to help your GPA.

Hello,

I am a junior right now at UMASS Amherst. I have been psych and pre-med until last year where I switched into the Neuroscience track, mainly because of all the science requirements needed for med school can be put to use through this major. I believe like said above, you need a full year of physics (including labs), One full year of Inorganic Chem and Organic (again, including labs), a math (at least one semester of stats, calc, or computer science), and then of course the into to Bio. It is best to talk to someone in your school so get the definate required classes (meaning, class numbers, etc). Right now personally I'm trying to figure out if I am do the sciences well enough to get into med school and to even do well on the MCAT's. I've only got to do the Organic chem, but being in neuroscience I have much more to go. It's tough, and also like above I'd like to be a psychologist or something of that sort

Hello, my name is Michael
I took general chemistry with the lab component and got an A first term and A- second term. But when I took biology I got b for both semesters. Personally I think that nyu, just makes biology harder for no apparent reason but I would like to know how this looks for medical school. Over gpa is 3.55

Mk91,

I believe your grades are definitely competitive for most medical schools. It is not unusual to get B's here or there in your required pre-med courses, especially at a college that has a decent/hard pre-med program. If you continue getting a mix of A's and B's in your pre-med courses and then do well on your MCAT exam, I think you will get accepted somewhere for medical school. You will have a tougher time at the better medical schools but should be able to get accepted at some of the mid schools and most of the lower level schools (I don't think any medical school is really a low level though - just all relative).

If you get mostly A's in the rest of your pre-med courses, that'll help. However, organic chemistry is pretty tough and it depends on just how hard your school grades those classes.

This is of course just my opinion - but 3.5 and above should give you a reasonable chance at the mid level medical schools.

I'm confused on what a "year of biology" means...

Does this mean two semesters of biology?

Does "English Comp I" and "English Comp II" count as a year of English?

Does "General Biology w/ Lab" count as one of the biology classes, and does "Botany" count as one?

Thanks
-C

Chance,

Any two semesters of English courses should be fine for the one year of English. The two you mention would be as good as any.

For the one year of biology, you need to have the biology course plus a lab for the entire year. At schools on the semester system, that would be two semesters. Usually there is a first year biology course offered for people majoring in biology, and that is the class you would want to take as a pre-med. Your school advisor should know which courses are the appropriate ones for medical school. Botany would not typically be one of the courses you would take for the year of biology.

DrDave wrote:Chance,

Any two semesters of English courses should be fine for the one year of English. The two you mention would be as good as any.

For the one year of biology, you need to have the biology course plus a lab for the entire year. At schools on the semester system, that would be two semesters. Usually there is a first year biology course offered for people majoring in biology, and that is the class you would want to take as a pre-med. Your school advisor should know which courses are the appropriate ones for medical school. Botany would not typically be one of the courses you would take for the year of biology.

Thanks a lot for the help.... I'm slightly discouraged because I'm 25, only have about 30 hours of school, and I have always wanted to go to med school. I feel like it will be hard to get in because of probably being 28 before being able to apply. However, never had a problem getting good grades. My GPA is over 3.7 and would be 4.0 if I hadn't gone through a crisis to where I missed a major exam in two classes which dropped me to a B. I can easily re-take those, however.