Medical Education US

Hi all, my first post here and I would appreciate some clarity regarding the pre-med course work and my shot at medical school. I graduated this May with a BS in Finance, and decided I don't like the business environment, however I did enjoy the studying and education process of learning. I am interested in applying to med school. I have no science pre-requisites or health care experience. I applied to HUNTER colleges post-bacc program for Spring 2010 but sadly was not accepted. As a backup plan I also applied to Montclair State University to take the individual pre-req classes since I have been told by friends and other forums that med schools do no necessarily care if you completed a program as opposed to individual classes. I will also complete the classes more quickly individually and it will offer me some flexibility with regards to looking for health care experience. Here is my plan, I would like to go to classes during the day and at night take an EMT-Basic course, which will take six months to complete and afterward I can work part-time as an EMT or volunteer. Now my main concern is the classes which I am registered for. I am aware of the pre-med requirements that the majority of med demand be completed before entering, but I am not certain if one I am registered for will satisfy the criteria. I am registered for: BIOL-112-08 PRINCIPLES OF BIOL I, MATH-122-01 CALCULUS I, and CHEM-113-04
FUNDAMENTALS OF CHEMISTRY. I am awaiting a response from the school department to clarify whether med school will accept Fundamentals of Chem with the same qualifications as General chemistry, and also whether principles of biology is the same as general biology. I know it is rare that gen bio and gen chem are offered in the spring since they are usually designed to accommodate first year students, but any input will be much appreciated. Thanks!

You will need to check with your school to see if those science classes are the same courses people take who are majoring those fields. Definitely make sure they are the same, or else you aren't going to meet the pre-med requirements. My understanding is the same as what you heard elsewhere regarding individual classes vs a program - the med schools will look at them the same regarding meeting the pre-med requirements.

In addition to making sure the coursework you are taking will meet the pre-med requirements, you should also discuss with a pre-med advisor whether your previous grades are adequate to get into medical school. Based on the fact that you didn't get into a post-bacc program, I am wondering if your previous grades are going to be a limiting factor with your getting into medical school.

Best of luck, and let us know what you find out about your science classes meeting pre-med requirements.

Thank you for the prompt response. Regarding my previous GPA, my overall was a 3.294, my major (finance) GPA was 3.331, and the only three science classes I took totalled 3.336. I understand this isn't an exceptional GPA, however I was told in my regret letter from the post-bacc program that there were a record number of applicants for a limited number of seats. I believe it is also that I have no healthcare experience along with the fact that I am starting at square one after graduating college. But as mentioned earlier I am waiting to hear from Montclair State to see if the courses I am registered for will satisfy the pre-med requirements. Is there any advice you have if these are not the required courses for medical school? Perhaps I should focus on working in the healthcare field and wait until next Fall when I am certain the university will offer the appropriate courses? Also if it helps, I am quite young, 22 years old and I do not have to worry about family/mortgage/rent etc.... I would like to utilize my time so I can help my chances in gaining acceptance into medical school. Any suggestions would be welcome, thanks again!

Good to know the reason for not getting into the post-bacc program wasn't your grades (which is what I had assumed). A 3.3 isn't too far from the mark, and I think you have a decent shot of getting into a medical school if you get good grades in your pre-med courses and then do well on the MCAT.

If the courses are not pre-med level courses, you are probably wasting your time and money and it makes more sense to wait until the fall to take the required courses.

Just so you know, at Emory, they offered 1st semester pre-med biology during the spring semester. They did this so that the 1st year college students wouldn't have two pre-med courses right as they arrive to college. This way, students can adjust a bit to college life, and then aren't taking two pre-med courses until their second semester. Hopefully your college will offer something you can take now so you don't feel like you are delaying things.

Also, just so you know, Calculus is not required by most medical schools. You usually have to take a math course, but it doesn't have to be at the calculus level - many will accept a stats class. If you aren't a strong math person, it might be worth seeing if the medical school you are most interested in requires calculus, and find out what math courses, if any, they do require. If, however, you are strong in math (and being a finance major you may be) then it certainly won't hurt you to take calculus if you get a good grade.

Once again a well put response. I have just one more question to ask. As I mentioned I am registered to begin taking two pre-med level classes at Montclair state this coming spring, which will not be part of a post-bacc program. Do you think I should start taking individual pre-req classes at Montclair, or wait until the Fall and apply to a post-bacc program at the school I graduated from? (William Paterson University). I am not sure which decision to make. I am only 22 so time is not weighing greatly on my decision. However, my reasons for perhaps deciding to favor a post-bacc program are as such; the school will provide me with research opportunities, volunteer work, as well as letters of recommendation. I have heard that these programs are an ace for getting into med school and will leave me well prepared. The only sacrifice I will have to make is waiting nine months until I start the program. In the meantime I plan on working to help pay for the program. I don't have to worry about the student loans because my mother will be loaning me the money. Any recommendations?

I assume the post-bac program you are referring to is this one: post bac premedical program at William Paterson University

The one thing to note there is they mention on the site that if you start in the first summer term you can be ready to apply to medical schools after only 16 months. That does sound like a VERY intense route to go - and the more flexible route is maybe more suitable, as the primary goal of the program is going to be to get excellent grades and prepare yourself for the MCAT.

I think it is possible to get into medical school going either route. In some ways, the structure of a post-bac program does seem like a nice extra option, as it is clear that they will offer you the pre-medical guidance. However, I would think most colleges that offer pre-med level programs can also provide you with similar level of advice, assuming they have a pre-medical counselor (and they should).

While you said these programs are an "ace" for getting into medical school, I'm not so sure that is true. If you have decent grades going into the program, and you get excellent grades in the program, and get excellent scores on your MCAT, then I'm sure you are in good shape. However, getting good grades in pre-med level courses requires not just hard work, but a pretty high level of ability to do well in school.

The opportunities for research and health care experience can be found at most colleges. I don't think it adds a whole lot to your application, but since everyone else will have this experience who applies, it is probably best to do the same so that you don't look like you are lacking. I actually had relatively extensive research experience, so maybe I'm not as aware of the impact of not having done research, but I think unless you are going to a high level medical school it really won't make much difference. You really should have some health care experience on your record, to show that you are least somewhat aware of what you are getting yourself into (although based on my own experience I'm guessing most medical students really don't have a clue of what they are getting themselves into until part way through their first year of medical school - things may be a little better now with the restrictions on consecutive hours you can work, but when I started I had no idea that being on call in medical school and residency meant you actually work 36 hrs straight and sometimes more at times). Anyway - I digress....

As to which route is best for you - I think if you are motivated and are at a school with a decent pre-med advisor, you don't need a post-bac program. If you are someone who wants more guidance and structure, the post-bac program is probably a better option. Just remember, no program is going to get you into medical school - you need to do the work, get the grades, and get the MCAT scores to do it. I don't think the medical school admission boards care whether you accomplish that through a post-bac program, or just taking the courses with little other guidance.

As it sounds from your post that the courses offered at the school now are premedical level courses, I'd say you may as well go ahead and take them, especially if you can track down a pre-med advisor at that school to answer more of your questions about the process and what courses to take when, etc.

I'm not an advisor and am able to offer some basic advice. I would hope an actual paid advisor would be able to help you out much more.

Best of luck and do keep us updated on your decisions (and reasons why you made them) and your progress.

Thank you again for a great response! I have made a decision regarding my journey into medicine. I will be attending Montclair State University this Spring to begin my pre-med requirements. I am registered for Calculus and Principles of Biology I (which they told me is their general biology section). My mother will be loaning me the money and I will paint apartments to pay back tuition (no interest and my families in real estate so it works out quite well). I am only taking Biology and Calculus because the appropriate Chemistry course is not available this semester, however, I understand that the objective is not to rush through my pre-med work, since I am only 22 and have already graduated college. No need to rush right? I think this will be enough course work to keep me very busy and allow me to work on the side. It should take me about a year and half to finish all of my classes. I am waiting for a response from the science department to put me in touch with the appropriate advisers. This is the first step in what I know will be a long journey, but I think it will pay off, hard work has always made me feel great and been very rewarding to me. I will be working very hard non-stop from here on out, but I wouldn't want it any other way. As far as MCAT preparation goes, I think it is pre-mature to think I should begin studying now before I embark on my pre-med curriculum. I will take lots of notes and burn into my brain all the concepts I can. I am very excited to get started! As far as my undergrad degree as a finance major, I am wondering what kind of consideration is given to non-science majors. Does the adcom look upon my history as someone who changed their career plan to walk in a different direction? I would assume that when they see someone graduated and than began studying science they would take this applicant very seriously. I did some more research at Montclair and they offer various research programs to students, which is great news. A dilemma I am facing is finding volunteer work. I have applied at several hospitals in person and online in my area (bergen county and new york city) but no one has responded. Any suggestions? Looking forward to hearing from you and thanks again!

Sounds like a very good plan. Make sure the general biology course includes a lab, as that is what pre-med biology is supposed to be.

Taking the pre-med courses is the main way that you study for the MCAT. The MCAT basically tests you on the pre-med course material. Obviously when you get close to taking the MCAT, you'll want to do a focused review on the main principles from all of the pre-med classes. The better you do in your pre-med classes, the better prepared you'll be for the MCAT. I believe the two are very closely related.

It doesn't matter too much what your undergrad major was, and I think med schools will consider all applicants seriously who have gone through the work of taking the pre-med courses and taking the MCAT. I did have at least 2 classmates who had been finance majors / accountants - both had actually worked in that field for a few years before going back to med school.

As for volunteer work, I contacted the local Red Cross and they assisted with having me work at a local hospital. It wasn't the greatest experience for me, but did serve the purpose of being on my application. You can also ask your pre-med advisor if they have suggestions near your school.

Good luck with your classes and enjoy the experience.