Medical Education US

Hi,

I am currently a 4th year biology student and considering medical school. However, my grades aren't so terrific for medical school and I would like to know what is the best plan I can do now to be accepted into medical school...i.e. should I do postbac to strengthen myself as an applicant by retaking my pre-med courses and get a better grade or should I continue on with my current "not-so-terrific" grades and take the MCATS and apply to med. school?

First, what were your grades? Could you submit both your over-all gpa, and the gpa for your pre-med classes? They would be very helpful in giving you the best possible advice.

Second, do you feel comfortable taking the mcats right now? Do you think your prepared to score well on them presently? Even if you did not get the best grades, you may have learned a lot in your classes. If not, you may need to do some post-bac. studies to prepare yourself.

Thirdly, in the state that you reside, do any of the state schools have MD programes? It's often easier to gain admittance to one's state school.

Hi all,

So I am obviously not the original person who posted the question, but I'm very much interested in the answer. I'm currently a junior at a competitive college working towards completing pre-med courses, a psychology major, and an English literature minor; according to my pre-med advisor and medical schools I've contacted for the purpose of asking this question, my college is competitive enough (and suffers from enough grade deflation) that medical schools will usually add 0.2 to both my overall GPA and my math/science GPA when considering my application.

Even given those additions, I am predicting that I will have an overall GPA of approximately 3.6 and a math/science GPA of approximately 3.25 when I graduate. I find these numbers -- especially the 3.25 for my pre-med classes -- very concerning, but can't seem to get a straight answer on whether or not these fairly mediocre numbers will be prohibitive as I apply to medical school. How bad are those GPAs, especially the 3.25? Will it look extremely bad on medical school applications that the pre-med (math/science) GPA is so much lower than the overall GPA? Is it worth me looking at a post-bacc program, which would represent a significant financial strain for me and my family, or would it be better for me to go straight for more outside experience/work in the medical field during my planned gap year after undergrad?

Furthermore, will medical schools take into account the fact that I am a psychology major looking to go into psychiatry, or will my GPA (and MCAT scores) be held to the exact same standards and in the same regard as all of the applicants?

Thank you.

bibliophile,

I'm not sure if you are saying that you have a science GPA of 3.05 which will be adjusted to 3.25 or if you have a 3.25 science GPA at a very difficult school.

Either way, the best answer I can give is that there are no absolute rules when it comes to GPA and getting into medical school. I would say that the higher your GPA is above 3.5, the stronger your application becomes. Between 3.2 and 3.4 will be challenging, but you still have a decent chance of finding some school where you can get accepted. Below 3.2 GPA means you'd likely need to have something else exceptional on your application in order to get accepted.

I'm not sure why you've already decided to take a year off between college and med school, but getting additional work experience will probably not do anything to help your chances of getting into medical school. Perhaps if you did research with someone who is on an admission's board, and you really impressed him/her, then you might get an advantage in your med school application. Outside of that, I don't know of any jobs that would provide experience that would make the difference between getting into medical school and not.

A post-bacc program is something to consider, but I would think it makes sense to first see if you can get accepted into medical school with your grades and MCAT scores (which you didn't mention - perhaps you haven't taken it yet). There are also some other options that may make more sense than the financial strain of a post-bacc program, such as considering DO programs. Based on what I've heard, they typically have lower GPA and MCAT requirements to get accepted, yet the training is almost identical to medical school and you can practice just as any MD can. If you are interested in psychiatry, you should still be able to get into a decent residency program coming out of a DO program, even with pretty average performance. Psychiatry residency programs are typically not very competitive, unless you are looking at top programs.

Your major will likely have zero impact on whether you get into medical school or not, even if you are planning on going into psychiatry and are majoring in psychology. Assuming you do eventually get into medical school, you should keep an open mind about what you may ultimately want to practice as you may be surprised and really like something else during medical school.

I'm sorry I can't give you more of a concrete answer on your chances of getting accepted. A 3.6 overall GPA is pretty solid, and a 3.25 science GPA is on the low side. Assuming you do decent on the MCAT, though, I would think there is still a chance you can get accepted into medical school. I'm curious about what your pre-med advisor suggests as far as chances of getting into medical school with your grades. I am not a pre-med advisor, just someone who went through the application process many years ago.

Dr. Dave,

Thank you for your reply. The GPA numbers I quoted already included the 0.2 increase; however, I believe that is an increase I can (hopefully) count on. About a year ago, I literally called the Harvard Medical School admissions office (I have no illusions about being able to go to Harvard, but I figured that they are the most difficult metric I can use to examine myself as a candidate) and asked them if they knew of my college and were in the habit of considering applicants to have a higher GPA than the official one given to them by my college. The admissions woman told me that they do indeed know of my school and add a standard 0.2 to GPAs of applicants whose undergrads were at my college for their own admissions consideration purposes. Am I right to assume that the 0.2 is a given at most/all med schools, then, or am I making too much of a leap...?

As for my MCAT, I have not taken it yet since I plan to take a year off; I will be taking it in early spring of my senior year. Would a high score on the MCAT go a long way towards mitigating the effects of my relatively poor GPA? I have heard stories of almost all pre-med students at my school doing quite well on the MCAT after being prepared through our pre-med classes, so I have at least a little hope that I won't do too poorly despite my B-grades in said pre-med courses.

As for the reasons I'm taking a gap year, there are several. One, I hope to begin psychiatric research via my college's clinical psychology practicum next year that I will be able to stay with for another year gaining hospital and research experience as well as increased appeal as a medical school applicant. Also, according to my pre-med advisor, taking a gap year to gain more experience is being viewed more and more favorably by medical schools, and is quite a common path for pre-med students these days. I can only hope she's right. Furthermore, I want to include my senior year grades in my applicant GPA, since I hope that they will raise my numbers a little.

You mentioned that few applicant experiences would make a big impact on chances of medical school acceptance. Are there any particular ones that you were thinking of which I should/could consider? So far, getting psychiatric experience at a local hospital is the best I can come up with...

Thanks again.

bibliophile,

I really never knew how medical school admission's boards adjusted the GPA based on the undergraduate school someone attended. Your information is pretty helpful as it is the first time I've heard something specific about a school adjusting GPA based on the college (as Harvard told you they would do). I am not sure if other schools would handle it the same way, but it seems reasonable. I really have nothing to add to what you've already heard.

I believe a high MCAT score definitely will help. It's hard to say how much, but I found an interesting discussion on the topic in another forum, referring to the LizzyM score:

I came up with this about a year ago as a way to compare an applicant's stats with a schools average stats. (BTW, median is one way of measuring "average", which is a measure of central tendency. Mean and mode are other ways to describe "average").

Your Lizzy score: your gpa(10)+ MCAT.
A school's LizzyM score (M for medical ) avg gpa(10) + MCAT - 1.

If school that has a LizzyM score greater than your Lizzy score is a "reach". Most schools on your list should have LizzyM scores that are equal or less than your Lizzy score.

I think it is a nice, simple way to estimate how much an MCAT score will affect your chances of getting an interview. I'm not sure how accurate it is overall, but it is simple and logical.

I appreciate your comments on what your pre-med advisor suggested and about the trends in people taking a year before going to medical school. I'm a bit out of touch as it's been over 15 years since I've applied to medical school. The reason I said that few experiences will make much difference in your chances of getting accepted is because (at least when I applied) most solid applicants will also have similar experience. I know almost everyone did volunteer work at a hospital when I was applying. You pretty much had to do it or else it might stand out as to why you didn't do it. The same thing with having some research experience.

As I said before, the only experience which I think would make a major impact is if you are lucky enough to impress someone who happens to be on an admission's board, or who is close friends with someone on the admission's board. These aren't the kinds of things you can really seek out. Work at a hospital will almost always come in handy, but when I was in college, it wasn't that easy to find good opportunities in a hospital setting.

Hi! I didn't do so well in undergrad and I'm wondering, should I apply for an MPH and then try to apply to medical school? Or take a postbacc program and repeat my science classes? I'm currently a nonscience major, but i've done my premed cell phone spy software reqs and done not too good on them. Or should I try majoring in Biology and taking upper level classes and trying to do good on them.

When you say you didn't do well, it depends just how low your GPA was. If your GPA was much below 3.2, I think you will have a difficult time regardless of what you do after college. Also, I think it depends on why your grades were not good in college. Was it that the courses were too hard, were you not too interested, or did you have other major life events going on that kept you from being able to study? What makes you think that you will get better grades in a post-bacc program?

hello!

Im currently a senior in college graduating in may. My GPA is roughly a 2.8 GPA and from reading your replies to other students, I am going to have a very difficult time getting into a program after college. Should I pursue a Masters in Public Health or attempt to apply to a post-bacc program? My major is Anthropology and I took some science courses during my early undergraduate years. Would pursuing a MPH help me get into medical school? I'm just worried I might not get into a post-bacc program and need to know what I can do instead.

jalmonte9,

There are multiple things that will need to work to your favor to have a chance at medical school.

1. You need to have a valid reason to explain why you had low grades.
2. You need to be able to demonstrate why you are now past whatever caused you to have those low grades.
3. You need to demonstrate that you are now capable of getting good grades.

You also need to make sure you complete all of your pre-med requirements in the process. I would think a post-bacc program would be better geared towards that end compared to an MPH. Overall, though, you definitely have an uphill battle. Keep your career options open if medical school doesn't work out for you.

Hey Dr Dave, quick question I really hope you can help

I started my college career as a marketing/management major. But I have taken science classes such as General Biology 1 with lab I got a C- and General Chemistry 1 with Lab I got C+. I am thinking if I take the required mcat classes, to qualify me for the test. I know, I did not do well in both of those classes, my overall GPA is 3.0 on the dot with business classes. My question is do you need above a C for the classes to count towards the Mcat requirement. Hypothetically if I got all Ds in the science classes ( I Know would probably never get into medical school) But would it allow me to take the mcat.

Henry35,

Anyone can sign up and take the MCAT. The reason people take the pre-med courses first is so that they will know the material, as the MCAT covers biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics.

Unless you do far better in the rest of the pre-med courses, the two C's will make getting into medical school extremely unlikely.